I thought I start a forum to discuss Marvel comics in general.
Let me start with something positive, Winter Solider #1 was great, in both story and art. It is quite different than other Marvel books out there. This is a book that I am going to keep getting.
Defenders #3 - I really liked the first issue a lot. However, my enjoyment of the series kept decreasing on a significant basis with each issue. The 3rd issue, I thought it was ok at best. If you asked me what was the point of the first story arc, I am not even sure I could tell you. I used to enjoy Matt Fraction's writing, but it seems to me that he is trying to be a poor substitute for Grant Morrison in the Marvel universe.
I have decided not to pre-order #5, I already dropped Iron Man, and Thor is on my chopping block as well.
LET'S TALK: Marvel
Moderator: JohnMayo
As a huge Marvel Zombie, or an ex-one (?), I am down to 5 Marvel titles a month. FIVE. You can not realize what a blow that is for this Marvel fan, but I am only buying titles that I feel are "worthy" 
of my Marvel fandom love.
DAREDEVIL, CAPTAIN AMERICA, PUNISHER, FANTASTIC FOUR and the newly added (though unread) WINTER SOLDIER are the only titles I feel deserve the title of 'my' Marvel. (I would add AMAZING here as well as it is a fantastically fun title, but Slott always seems to do something to kill each issue for me - Pacing/Timing/Dialog/Plot device)
Marvel, lately (over the past few years), has just destroyed its universe by allowing writers to just insert characters into stories they want to tell, omitting all sense of who or what that character is (IE: Dr. Strange in DEFENDERS being a playboy), instead of writing stories around the characters.
It is no longer -
"Oh, I have a Dr. Strange story to tell!!
It has become -
"Oh, I have a story. Let me add Dr. Strange in it!!
It is crap. Utter crap.
I have no problem with writers testing the voice of characters, but to totally eliminate that voice and insert one of their own destroys the very fiber of that character.
Marvel may as well add spikes and pouches onto everyone's costumes again.
of my Marvel fandom love.DAREDEVIL, CAPTAIN AMERICA, PUNISHER, FANTASTIC FOUR and the newly added (though unread) WINTER SOLDIER are the only titles I feel deserve the title of 'my' Marvel. (I would add AMAZING here as well as it is a fantastically fun title, but Slott always seems to do something to kill each issue for me - Pacing/Timing/Dialog/Plot device)
Marvel, lately (over the past few years), has just destroyed its universe by allowing writers to just insert characters into stories they want to tell, omitting all sense of who or what that character is (IE: Dr. Strange in DEFENDERS being a playboy), instead of writing stories around the characters.
It is no longer -
"Oh, I have a Dr. Strange story to tell!!
It has become -
"Oh, I have a story. Let me add Dr. Strange in it!!
It is crap. Utter crap.
I have no problem with writers testing the voice of characters, but to totally eliminate that voice and insert one of their own destroys the very fiber of that character.
Marvel may as well add spikes and pouches onto everyone's costumes again.
I started out reading comics with DC, but I am a big fan of the Marvel characters as well.
I remember when Quesada first took over Marvel Comics as EIC. I think I started to pick up majority of Marvel titles and continued for years.
However, I feel recently that the overall quality of Marvel Comics have decreased. I don't feel like they tell stories but events. Obviously, there are still some great books being published by Marvel but it is the exception versus the rule for me.
It doesn't help that they double ship a lot of titles. And now with the new AvX event and every Avengers and X-Men book is probably going to tie into it, it might be like it was with Fear Itself where a)the tie-in stories are weak b) the same story is told in multiple places c)we get only one real story told over multiple comics and issues.
I am going to get the AvX main series and the main Avengers books (New Avengers, Avengers, and Avengers Assemble) and the main X-Men books (Wolverine & X-Men and Uncanny X-Men), but that is it.
I remember when Quesada first took over Marvel Comics as EIC. I think I started to pick up majority of Marvel titles and continued for years.
However, I feel recently that the overall quality of Marvel Comics have decreased. I don't feel like they tell stories but events. Obviously, there are still some great books being published by Marvel but it is the exception versus the rule for me.
It doesn't help that they double ship a lot of titles. And now with the new AvX event and every Avengers and X-Men book is probably going to tie into it, it might be like it was with Fear Itself where a)the tie-in stories are weak b) the same story is told in multiple places c)we get only one real story told over multiple comics and issues.
I am going to get the AvX main series and the main Avengers books (New Avengers, Avengers, and Avengers Assemble) and the main X-Men books (Wolverine & X-Men and Uncanny X-Men), but that is it.
As a kid I basically just read Spider-Man and Ghost Rider. Now I read just two Marvel characters ... although that translates into like 13 books. I read all the Spider-Man books, including Venom, and all the X-books except New Mutants and X-Factor.
I have to say I'm very impressed with the X books so far. I started with the Schism event and I'm enjoying all of it. The double shipping sucks for my wallet but I love having lots to read every month.
My biggest gripe with Marvel is their events. I don't care to read them but my titles are invaded by the storyline whether I like it or not.
I have to say I'm very impressed with the X books so far. I started with the Schism event and I'm enjoying all of it. The double shipping sucks for my wallet but I love having lots to read every month.
My biggest gripe with Marvel is their events. I don't care to read them but my titles are invaded by the storyline whether I like it or not.
-
BobBretall
- Master Reviewer
- Posts: 5522
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:44 pm
Looks like my intersection with your Marvel reading is Amazing Spider-Man, 2 issues per month......
On the topic of Captain America, I read Captain America & Bucky #626 yesterday and thought it was pretty weak. Francavilla is no Chris Samnee, and I'm not feeling the "co-written & scripted by James Asmus". Since Brubaker is not "full job" on this PLUS it's switching to a team up with "goofy yellow goggles" Hawkeye, I'm dropping this title.
On a positive note, Fantastic Four #602 was pretty awesome. Hickman brought some MAJOR game in the end of this one, I can't wait to see how this storyline plays out.
Waid is also doing a great job on Daredevil. The Spider-Man crossover was pretty good. Slott on Spidey & Waid on DD are my favorite things about Marvel right now (& neither of them are "architects", are they?)
On the topic of Captain America, I read Captain America & Bucky #626 yesterday and thought it was pretty weak. Francavilla is no Chris Samnee, and I'm not feeling the "co-written & scripted by James Asmus". Since Brubaker is not "full job" on this PLUS it's switching to a team up with "goofy yellow goggles" Hawkeye, I'm dropping this title.
On a positive note, Fantastic Four #602 was pretty awesome. Hickman brought some MAJOR game in the end of this one, I can't wait to see how this storyline plays out.
Waid is also doing a great job on Daredevil. The Spider-Man crossover was pretty good. Slott on Spidey & Waid on DD are my favorite things about Marvel right now (& neither of them are "architects", are they?)
What is interesting is that Amazing Spider-man sold better than the Avengers titles.BobBretall wrote: Waid is also doing a great job on Daredevil. The Spider-Man crossover was pretty good. Slott on Spidey & Waid on DD are my favorite things about Marvel right now (& neither of them are "architects", are they?)
-
BobBretall
- Master Reviewer
- Posts: 5522
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:44 pm
I'd like to think it's because ASM is better than the Avengers titles. They're telling coherent stories with a beginning middle & end instead of the Avengers that felt to me like a bunch of stuff that exists to sell events and marks time while moving from one big crossover event to the next.HassanT wrote: What is interesting is that Amazing Spider-man sold better than the Avengers titles.
That said, quality rarely translates into sales in comics.
No, but lack of interest does translate into lower sales.BobBretall wrote:I'd like to think it's because ASM is better than the Avengers titles. They're telling coherent stories with a beginning middle & end instead of the Avengers that felt to me like a bunch of stuff that exists to sell events and marks time while moving from one big crossover event to the next.HassanT wrote: What is interesting is that Amazing Spider-man sold better than the Avengers titles.
That said, quality rarely translates into sales in comics.
-
BobBretall
- Master Reviewer
- Posts: 5522
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:44 pm
Which sums up why comics are having problems:HassanT wrote:No, but lack of interest does translate into lower sales.BobBretall wrote:I'd like to think it's because ASM is better than the Avengers titles. They're telling coherent stories with a beginning middle & end instead of the Avengers that felt to me like a bunch of stuff that exists to sell events and marks time while moving from one big crossover event to the next.HassanT wrote: What is interesting is that Amazing Spider-man sold better than the Avengers titles.
That said, quality rarely translates into sales in comics.
Quality by itself does not result in higher sales
Lack of Quality == lower sales
The only thing that seems to raise sales (in general) is marketing hype that will spike sales but not keep people around for the long haul, because the hype is generally not coupled with the level of quality that will get people to stick around longer than the hyped event, in most cases, or for a few months in the case of the DC reboot.
I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm enjoying a fair amount of Marvel's titles right now. Daredevil is one of the best books on the stand today. My Marvel pull is Spider-man, Avenging Spider-man which I'll drop during the Greg Land issues but pick back up for the Omega Effect story, Fantastic Four, FF, Avengers Xsanction, Avengers Academy, PunisherMax, Uncanny X-Force, and Ultimate Comics X-Men. I have dropped titles lately also.
Bendis' work as dropped in quality significantly so all of his books I've dropped due to his very decompressed stories and talking heads. Ultimate Spider-man I dropped after reading it for 10 plus years because it's a completely different book now.. Everything Avengers I dropped, besides Academy. Venom I dropped because of the Spider-Island event.
Bendis' work as dropped in quality significantly so all of his books I've dropped due to his very decompressed stories and talking heads. Ultimate Spider-man I dropped after reading it for 10 plus years because it's a completely different book now.. Everything Avengers I dropped, besides Academy. Venom I dropped because of the Spider-Island event.
-
BobBretall
- Master Reviewer
- Posts: 5522
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:44 pm
I enjoy the 10 or 12 things I still get. I guess it depends on what you call a "Fair amount" of Marvel. Given they pump out about 90 titles a month & I used to get 60+ of them, I don't think to 10-12 as being a fair amount. If you're not getting at least 25% of a company's output, you're kind of dabbling in their universe.GABE! wrote:I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm enjoying a fair amount of Marvel's titles right now.
That does not sound like significantly more than what I'm getting.GABE! wrote: My Marvel pull is (Daredevil), Spider-man, Avenging Spider-man which I'll drop during the Greg Land issues but pick back up for the Omega Effect story, Fantastic Four, FF, Avengers Xsanction, Avengers Academy, PunisherMax, Uncanny X-Force, and Ultimate Comics X-Men.
Don't get me wrong, Marvel puts out a handful of books I really really enjoy. It's just they are putting out significantly fewer books that I'm loving than they did for about 10 years (2001 - 2010). My somewhat negative spin comes from the feeling that they have slipped significantly from representing a 3rd of the comics I get to ~10%.
BTW, I get PunisherMax too, but didn't count it since it's ended.
The majority of the best books I read each month still have Marvel on the label. Avengers Academy which so far has peaked with Fear Itself is still a good book each month. Captain America is still going strong. I do wonder if Brubaker has a stronger connection with Bucky than he does Steve Rogers. I do wonder if some one like Jeff Parker maybe a good fit to at least co-plot the main Captain America title.
Uncanny X-Force was hands down the best title I was reading last year. Marvel had a nice run of titles that were as funny as they were dramatic. Now only Uncanny X-Force meets that bill of what I read.
I just read the X-Men Schism hardcover, and I am really looking forward to trying out Wolverine & The X-Men when that comes out.
Avenger's Children Crusade, depending on how it ends, could go down as one of the best Avenger's events ever. It feels like like a mix of Secret War and Avenger's Forever.
I am really sorry to see Black Panther wrap up. The title really got better as it went along.
Uncanny X-Force was hands down the best title I was reading last year. Marvel had a nice run of titles that were as funny as they were dramatic. Now only Uncanny X-Force meets that bill of what I read.
I just read the X-Men Schism hardcover, and I am really looking forward to trying out Wolverine & The X-Men when that comes out.
Avenger's Children Crusade, depending on how it ends, could go down as one of the best Avenger's events ever. It feels like like a mix of Secret War and Avenger's Forever.
I am really sorry to see Black Panther wrap up. The title really got better as it went along.
Question - Would anyone not currently reading an X-book, start reading them if they dropped to only one or two titles a month? (This question may only apply to me and Bob 
)
I am flipping back through some of my Uncanny, late 70's stuff, and I just get hit with such a fond remembrance of this title, or this group as a whole and I start to miss them. But then I see the almost 20 titles a month of X-books that Marvel pushes out like a mutant baby factory and I just cringe at ... not only the thought of trying to keep up with all the happenings ... but the very idea of the "X" titles and their existence. It is like Marvel has forced this feeling of nausea on my by producing too much of a (once) good thing.
I actually avoid writers I enjoy very much, like Peter David on X-FACTOR, because of the fear of being pulled into a world I care little (read as 'nothing') about.
However, I have to think, or at least I like to think, if Marvel was only producing one or two X books a month I could regain my love for these genetically advanced, homo-superiors that I once had and enjoyed.
Now true, the writing and art would also be a factor ... an X-FACTOR? ... okay, sorry ... but I think I would be more willing to jump into the X-gene pool if it wasn't full of people that I don't know and care nothing for, splashing around like fools and getting chlorine in my eyes making them burn.
Am I alone?
)I am flipping back through some of my Uncanny, late 70's stuff, and I just get hit with such a fond remembrance of this title, or this group as a whole and I start to miss them. But then I see the almost 20 titles a month of X-books that Marvel pushes out like a mutant baby factory and I just cringe at ... not only the thought of trying to keep up with all the happenings ... but the very idea of the "X" titles and their existence. It is like Marvel has forced this feeling of nausea on my by producing too much of a (once) good thing.
I actually avoid writers I enjoy very much, like Peter David on X-FACTOR, because of the fear of being pulled into a world I care little (read as 'nothing') about.
However, I have to think, or at least I like to think, if Marvel was only producing one or two X books a month I could regain my love for these genetically advanced, homo-superiors that I once had and enjoyed.
Now true, the writing and art would also be a factor ... an X-FACTOR? ... okay, sorry ... but I think I would be more willing to jump into the X-gene pool if it wasn't full of people that I don't know and care nothing for, splashing around like fools and getting chlorine in my eyes making them burn.
Am I alone?