Why so serious? (re Mayo Report)

[hayestronaut]

I tend to get excited when I see the monthly Mayo reports show up on my ipod. For more than two years, I've listened to them all. As a college graduate with a minor in accounting, I find the analysis of the numbers fascinating. My college life bridged the gap between LOTUS 123 (ms dos) and EXCEL (gui operating system). As if my love for comics wasn't nerdy enough, I also get a kick out of creating spreadsheets.

But I gotta say that John's emotional investment in these figures eludes me. He often describes the numbers as "depressing." That bums me out, man. Comics should be fun! I like it better when he thinks of them as "interesting." Heck, Chris Marshall wasn't even able to cheer him up.

The concept of marrying narrative with sequential art has been around for thousands of years. I love my BATMAN, but if Marvel and DC go away, comics (in some form) will always be around for us to enjoy. And thankfully there will be podcasts like THE COMIC BOOK PAGE to keep readers, like me, current on all that is out there.

I recently attended a signing at Bergen St Comics in Brooklyn. Benjamin Marra was signing his latest book THE INCREDIBLY FANTASTIC ADVENTURES OF MAUREEN DOWD. While there, I also picked up Jim Rugg's latest mini-comic RAMBO 3.5. These books are awesome! This last one is available through DCBS if you find it interesting. I'm also proud to say that my 5 yr old son and I will always have memories of reading OWLY and MOUSEGUARD together. These are titles that I've managed to obtain outside of the direct market.

As a creator (see Previews Spotlight #13) who has written a book that failed to crack THE MAYO REPORT, I'm still very excited about the industry. I'm so grateful that I've been able to contribute stories to a medium that I love so much. In closing, keep the MAYO REPORTs coming. Your passion for analysis is a treat...just cheer up. One day there may not be anymore TEEN TITANS, but there will always be comics.

[JohnMayo]

But I gotta say that John's emotional investment in these figures eludes me. He often describes the numbers as "depressing." That bums me out, man. Comics should be fun! I like it better when he thinks of them as "interesting." Heck, Chris Marshall wasn't even able to cheer him up.

Yes, comics are fun. I wouldn't keep reading them if they weren't.

But comics sales can be depressing to track.

Hi, my name is John and I'm addicted to comics.

My emotional investment in comics comes from the fact that I have been reading them for longer than I can remember and without them my life would be very different. I started tracking sales when I was thinking about creating and publishing comics. I quickly learned that the best way to make a small fortunate in comics was to start wit ha large one. Alas, I didn't have a large fortunate to start with so I figured I'd just wait a few years for the industry to turn around. That was a long time ago and I'm still waiting for things to turn around.

The sad reality of comic book sales is that quality doesn't seem to matter and that marketing gimmicks aside, sales always go down. It is exceedingly difficult to look at a list of the top 300 comics, see all only two dozen or so items that went up in sales and find an upbeat message to pull out of that. And with each passing month of lower and lower sales it gets harder and harder to do it.

On one of the other threads, someone mentioned that the bottom of the list is higher than is was a few years ago. And it is. So that is good news, right? Maybe but probably not. When you look out how Marvel has nearly doubled the number of comics they release each month and you realized that what has really happened is that Marvel has crowded out a lot of titles from the smaller publishers and that most of those titles that were on the bottom of the list when it was lower have stopped being published. And in many cases, they publisher stopped publishing entirely.

If you were to chart the sales of almost a random comic, odds are that it would most likely be a downward slope with sales dropping in half over the course of a few years. Quite a bit less likely is that the chart would drop and then level out with a slow bleeding of sales over time. In both cases, there would be the random spike in sales representing a crossover with an event title or a new creative team. And with Walking Dead as the notable exception, the odds of the graph trending upward (and that not being done using marketing gimmicks) is virtually nil.

I'd love to be able to give a very upbeat and positive report of the comic book sales every month but to do that, I need upward sales trends to talk about and they just aren't there.

[80sJunkie]

With dropping comic sales, fewer people are enjoying comic-y fun. That's understandable cause for some measure of melancholy, I think.

Mayo does focus on books that buck the trend like Walking Dead and the first run of Mouse Guard. Those are rare exceptions, but John can only report what the numbers are.

Maybe there are more titles that buck the trend or do better than expected? I think Power Girl retained readers more strongly than the trend would have predicted. John does focus on things like that.

They talk about Boom! in optimistic terms generally. They aren't posting Marvel or DC numbers, but I think they're viewing their numbers in positive terms. If I'm not mistaken, the numbers have been inching up for several years prior to the past year. They have reported that.

Hopefully the current trend is temporary. Perhaps Marvel's 50th and DC's 75th will usher in a reversal of the reversal?

[hayestronaut]

I'd love to be able to give a very upbeat and positive report of the comic book sales every month but to do that, I need upward sales trends to talk about and they just aren't there.

I'm not asking John to assign positive emotion to negative trends. I would just personally prefer to have a more emotionally detached analysis of the numbers. I listened intently as the boys theorized whether the lantern ring freebie would have a long-lasting impact on ongoing sales. I'm sure the effects were negligible, but it's no reason to get upset. Unless you work for DC of course.

When I enjoy a film during it's opening weekend, I'm not depressed to hear it tanked at the box office. That's some other dude's problem. There will always be comic books for us to enjoy. Maybe not 6 or 7 $3.99 X-MEN titles per month. Wait a minute....that seems like a step in the right direction. I'm not expecting some dramatic up-tick in sales, I just think we should enjoy the ride down.

Just a small personal peeve. I really dig the show.

[JohnMayo]

There will always be comic books for us to enjoy.

Personally, I'm not convinced of that there will always be new comic books being published for us to enjoy.

[BobBretall]

There will always be comic books for us to enjoy.

Personally, I'm not convinced of that there will always be new comic books being published for us to enjoy.

I think that there will always be comics. Not necessarily Marvel/DC super-hero comics, and there might not be comics shops to buy them in, but someone somewhere will be putting out some self-published stuff.

PLUS, there will be European comics & Manga to buy!!!!

[Wood]

There will always be comic books for us to enjoy.

Personally, I'm not convinced of that there will always be new comic books being published for us to enjoy.

There may not be new Marvel and Dc superhero comics for us to read, but there will be comic (defined as a marriage of sequential images paired with a written narrative) for as long as we still read as a species.

[JohnMayo]

Yes, there will always be people putting out self-published comics. Much like you can still find new audio dramas if you look hard enough and are patient enough. But for all intents and purposes, audio dramas a form of entertainment for the masses is long since dead.

And, yes, the manga and European comics will continue to exist. But I read little of either of those now. Sales on manga have been cooling of lately and European comics are not a huge market here in the USA.

I remain convinced that there will always be new comic books being published for us to enjoy. I'm talking about the business of comics, not the art form. Sure, new comics will continue to be created and found by those who are willing to spend more time finding new comics than reading new comics.

The comic book publishing industry is not healthy.

Some new titles from Marvel and DC and launching below 20,000 units what would have been cancellation levels five years ago. Other titles are struggling to keep above 10,000 units. Most titles drop in sales every month and it is getting harder and harder for new titles to launch with numbers near the top of the charts, much keep the majority of those units on the second issue.

If sales continue in the downward direction then what we currently know and enjoy as the American comic book industry will eventually collapse. At that point, the ability for the average American to buy ongoing comic book titles will become significantly more difficult that it is now and the number of such ongoing titles will be in a tiny fraction of what is currently available.

[BobBretall]

I remain convinced that there will always be new comic books being published for us to enjoy. I'm talking about the business of comics, not the art form. Sure, new comics will continue to be created and found by those who are willing to spend more time finding new comics than reading new comics.

I agree with you on the business of "Big 2" publishing in comics, coupled with the retailing business related to it.

And, yes, the manga and European comics will continue to exist. But I read little of either of those now. Sales on manga have been cooling of lately and European comics are not a huge market here in the USA.

While true today, I'm curious if more people will turn to these if the Big publishers in the US implode. I'm sure it's not going to grow to anything to rival what comics once were, but the fans of the comics medium who remain should still be able to get new stories from a variety of sources.

[JohnMayo]

Are there really that many (if any) fans of the comic book format in and of itself?

The sales trends suggest most readers aren't even that loyal to particular characters but tend to follow certain creators. I don't really think there are that many people so enamored of the storytelling format they would actively seek out tons of new content from overseas.

Personally, I think Marvel and DC are likely to be among the last publishers active if things collapse since both of them have easier access to other sales channels and revenue streams that the small publishers don't have.

I also am far from convinced that the digital market is strong enough to support the cost of new content creation in the long run.

[hayestronaut]

The comic book publishing industry is not healthy.
.

No doubt. But there is always the allure of Hollywood to push creators to express their ideas through comics. COWBOYS & ALIENS, SCOTT PILGRIM, THE SURROGATES, etc are some examples of movies born in comics. While one could argue the ultimate profitability of these properties, Hollywood continues mining comics for ideas. More and more, creators are conceeding profit on their books and hoping for an option deal.

And like Bob says of publishers that print stories with the hopes of a movie deal, (paraphrasing) "a good story is a good story."

[adampasz]

I like that John, Bob and Chris couple the raw data with some opinion. Otherwise it would be much more dull to listen to. The key is to not mix up opinions with facts.

The comics industry definitely feels like it's in trouble, and the podcast is a good wake up call. I hope people are paying attention!