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Danscomics wrote:I can imagine that being annoying. I still remember how annoyed I was at one of the local shops when they charged me sales tax on a new comic I was buying.

I live in Oregon, one of the few states that doesn't have sales tax, so I'm used to the price listed being the price I pay.

J. Farrell wrote:

Danscomics wrote:I can imagine that being annoying. I still remember how annoyed I was at one of the local shops when they charged me sales tax on a new comic I was buying.

I live in Oregon, one of the few states that doesn't have sales tax, so I'm used to the price listed being the price I pay.

Wow, that definitely would have made it even more annoying then. In New York periodicals are not taxable and comics qualify as long as you aren't charging more than the cover price. Once you go over the cover price the state considers it a tangible asset and sales tax is required.

BadDeacon wrote: That wasn't our topic of discussion, so I didn't really ask more about it then, but apparently this is happening, and people are willing to buy. Also, I'm not sure if this in a rack in a store, or at something like Frank n Sons. When we talk again next week, I'll ask more about it, and see if he was there long enough to gauge customer reaction.

Frank & Sons dealers have been price-gouging on hot comics for 10+ years, so that wouldn't surprise me.

I'd be really curious to know the names of the shops that are selling current comics at above cover price.....I may be able to give my own critique of those stores as I've been in almost every one in SoCal and there are some that are already on my "banned" list......

In my opinion anyone who prices #1s above cover price is doing it in short term interests and not in the continual interests of their business.

Not only would you frighten current customers away, but scare away potentially new customers.

Surely nurtuing customers, making them returning customers is better than earning a one of couple of dollars.

Paul Nolan wrote: Not only would you frighten current customers away, but scare away potentially new customers.

Surely nurturing customers, making them returning customers is better than earning a one of couple of dollars.

Well said.

quote from Mike Banks of Samurai Comics in Phoenix Arizona from http://www.newsarama.com/comics/new-52- ... 10923.html

"Sales on the New 52 from previous weeks are very strong," said Banks. "We are one of the only stores in town to have the majority of them on our stands at cover price, so we continue to see a large number of new customers through the doors looking for these comics."

i find that immensely sad and short-sighted of the other retailers in his area.

Yes, I stopped at the Frank & Son show to pick up 1000 bags&boards on the way to my Mother-in-Law's yesterday & everyone there was price gouging on most of the "hot" titles.

I saw:
$10 Catwoman, Batgirl
$6 Batman, Red Hood, Green Lantern, Batman&Robin, Batwoman, Demon Knights, Superboy, Red Lanterns

You could still get Grifter & Legion Lost for cover price

You could get OMAC for $2

BUT.....Frank & Son is kind of a flea market atmosphere with about 10-12 different comics dealers & they have been price gouging on "hot" comics for 10+ years. I still remember the Death of Superman & "Daredevil armor" issues being price gouged there back in the day.

I also stopped by Collector's Paradise in the SF Valley on my way to the M-in-Law's & they were sold out of a lot of the books, but the ones that were still on the rack were cover price.

I find it interesting that the books are sold out when offered at cover price, but still available for sale when up-priced. That means people (for the most part) are not that willing to pay the marked up prices.

As I said, I personally would not patronize a brick & mortar shop that price gouges on new books. I'd love to know what Phoenix LCS's are price gouging. Jesse James? All About Books? If so, I won't stop in at those stores when I'm in town any more.

BobBretall wrote:Yes, I stopped at the Frank & Son show to pick up 1000 bags&boards on the way to my Mother-in-Law's yesterday & everyone there was price gouging on most of the "hot" titles.

I saw:
$10 Catwoman, Batgirl
$6 Batman, Red Hood, Green Lantern, Batman&Robin, Batwoman, Demon Knights, Superboy, Red Lanterns

You could still get Grifter & Legion Lost for cover price

You could get OMAC for $2

BUT.....Frank & Son is kind of a flea market atmosphere with about 10-12 different comics dealers & they have been price gouging on "hot" comics for 10+ years. I still remember the Death of Superman & "Daredevil armor" issues being price gouged there back in the day.

I also stopped by Collector's Paradise in the SF Valley on my way to the M-in-Law's & they were sold out of a lot of the books, but the ones that were still on the rack were cover price.

I find it interesting that the books are sold out when offered at cover price, but still available for sale when up-priced. That means people (for the most part) are not that willing to pay the marked up prices.

As I said, I personally would not patronize a brick & mortar shop that price gouges on new books. I'd love to know what Phoenix LCS's are price gouging. Jesse James? All About Books? If so, I won't stop in at those stores when I'm in town any more.

We must have missed each other at both of these places.

I have been watching this thread and thinking about some of the ideas presented and think there are some logical inconsistencies being made in most of the arguments made here. First, price gouging is a legal term and what we are talking about doesn’t fit that definition so like the practice or not you can’t call it price gouging. Second, if you belief the retailer has a moral obligation to sick to the cover price when demand is greater than supply you should also believe the consumer has an obligation to stick to cover price when the situation in reversed. Third, if you want to blame someone rather than blaming the retailers how about the publisher that completely miss judged demand and once they knew they had misjudged demand did nothing about it.

Price gouging is a legal term that refers to the charging of an unreasonable price on necessities during a civil emergency within the local area affected by the emergency. What we are talking about here simply does not fit that definition. While I’m sure there have been some minor civil emergencies during the weeks we are talking about I don’t think this practice has anything to do with said areas or the civil emergencies specifically. Also under no definition are comic books a necessity. If you happen to be in an area where true price gouging is or maybe occurring chances are you wouldn’t be thinking about buying comics at all. On a side note, blatant misuse of language and hyperbole like this make clear communication of true tragedies or horrifying event much more difficult. The constant use of superlatives to describe every day occurrences that are slightly different from the norm only serve to lessen our ability to empathize with and understand the truly tragic and horrifying circumstances some of our follow humans find themselves in. OK, I will step off my word use soapbox and move onto other points about the price of comic books.

Several of the posts in this thread seem to indicate that while understanding that there is nothing illegal about the practice of charging over cover price on new comics that they find it morally objectionable. The problem I have with this is that from reading many other posts on this forum and discussions with comic readers elsewhere few seem to find the opposite morally objectionable. Let me explain. It is very common for comic readers to say things like “I’ll wait till I can find that in the dollar bin”, even when the cover price is higher than $1.00. What that consumer is really saying is that they feel the quantity available is greater than the demand at cover price and knowing in order for the seller to eventually sell all copies the seller will need to lower the price. I have never heard anyone express moral outrage at this practice. In fact seemingly many consumers are happy with the practice when it favors their budget. What is going on with current DC books selling above cover price is the same thing, just in the opposite direction. The quantity available of the current books is not sufficient for the demand of consumers willing to pay cover price. Therefor if I own a retail outlet and have only say 100 copies of book X available to my customers I should set the price of that book at a price commensurate with only having 100 customers willing to pay that price. This is a simple matter of what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Since I have never heard anyone express moral outrage at books being discounted to sell excess quantity there should also be no moral outrage at books being priced higher to make sure there is not a shortage of books

My last point is about what created the “shortage”, and quite simply put it was the publisher. While the shortage of books during the Justice League week or even the first full week might have been unavoidable the shortages during the second full week of books most assuredly falls on the shoulders of DC. By the time reports started coming in about how hard it was to find copies of Justice League during that last week in August DC should have known they had a problem and been working to fix it. Rather than getting to working and doing everything they could to get more copies printed and to the retailers they spent the days putting out self-congratulatory press releases about how book not even due out for a few weeks had sold out. If DC knew that books not yet released had sold out the proper response would have been to put pressure on their printer to make more as quickly as possible, but instead they put press releases. At the end of the day regardless of the content of those press releases all they said to me was, to the consumer that wants to read our new books and to the retailer that want to sell our new books go pound sand. Announcing a second printing that won’t be available for weeks and that they didn’t even start production on until the actual release date came and went simply doesn’t cut it.

I think it is ridiculous to think that the seller has a moral requirement to stick to cover price. It is a business decision to make.

Making the business decision to sell a new book for more than cover price may make more money in the short term, but result in lower future sales.

Making the business decision to sell a book for "only" cover price may make less money than could have been made in the short term, but result in greater sales over time.

Nothing moral about it, just the difference between good business and bad business.

fudd71 wrote:My last point is about what created the “shortage”, and quite simply put it was the publisher. While the shortage of books during the Justice League week or even the first full week might have been unavoidable the shortages during the second full week of books most assuredly falls on the shoulders of DC.

Your objections to terminology aside, blaming DC in this case is misplaced, in my opinion.

DC offered a very complete set of incentives to get retailers to up their orders, including offering returnability on many of the titles. That many retailers have misjudged the demand is not DC's fault, and on the in-demand books DC is making 2nd (& 3rd) printings available as quickly as possible.

BadDeacon wrote: Making the business decision to sell a new book for more than cover price may make more money in the short term, but result in lower future sales.
Making the business decision to sell a book for "only" cover price may make less money than could have been made in the short term, but result in greater sales over time.

I agree with you here, and that's my main worry.

If I hear the news about the new DC comics and go to a shop, it's one thing to hear them say:
"Sorry, we sold out of that comic, demand is very high. We'll be getting a second printing in within a couple of weeks, would you like me to hold a copy for you? Also, if you don't want to wait, you can get the comic digitally off our web-site right now, let me give you the URL."

It's completely another thing to walk into the store & see the comics you'd like to check out priced at $6 - $10 (and beyond).

I know that a sell-out with a digital option is something I'd go away thinking "Well, I didn't get the book, but the guy was trying to help me out".

In the up-priced comic scenario I'd go away thinking the shop owner is an opportunist just looking to make a quick buck & not interested in gaining long term customers.

Here's the thing: What's a shop owner TRYING to do when they buy 50 copies of a comic? I'd think they are generally looking to sell those 50 comics at the nominal price. If those sell, they may want to do a re-order and get more to sell.

If something gets popular & people want it and that results in it getting up-priced within a couple of days of release (I'm talking about walking into a store 3 days after release & seeing the books up-priced) that just tells me I don't want to shop at that store. Ever again.

That's me. I suspect I'm not the only person who feels that way.

There are three stores in my town.

One of them is a used books and magazine store that also carries comics. I don't go there because there is not one iota of culture.

The other, my regular store up until a few days ago, screwed me out of a design contract. Not the manager's fault, the owner's. So I kept going because the manager is a decent guy. However most their back issue prices are mental. $4 dollars for The Maxx #3? Someone needs meds. That said, they actually have back issues. Sometimes, on occasion, the back issue prices are good. AND, if I want to trade something in, he gives a decent trade price which in a way, justifies his higher back issue prices. They don't up price on new books and everything released within the last three months is pretty much considered a new release. They have an excellent selection of books and board games so I kept going there.

But I moved to another part of town and out of convenience I switched to a new store which is just next door. I walk in yesterday and see an issue of Animal Man #1 priced at $10. I will tell them that as a customer, this does nothing except piss me off.

I see no advantage at all in doing this.

If I had not read Animal Man and was curious about it I would not have purchased that copy. I would go to another store and buy it at regular price or go online to buy it digitally or find some other way of getting it cheaper or skip reading it altogether.

Either way, they're losing my business. Is it not better to get a customer buying Animal Man on a regular basis than to screw him once out of $10?

Now, here's a compromise I'd be happy with as a customer. If I see an uppriced copy of Animal Man #1 next to regular priced copies of the second printing, I don't get upset. I get to choose.

I'm going to tell the store guy this because I think it's fair to say so. But here's a question to retailers. How can I word this so that they'll actually hear me out and I won't put them off? This is a new store and I want to establish a good relationship with them.

This brings me back to an interesting discussion I had in a panel at sdcc a couple of years ago with the overstreet folks. That is, when is value truly reflected in a book? Their opinion is that books less than a few years old are worth basically cover or less regardless of what they sell for on eBay, etc.

How long does a book have to sustain demand at a particular price to be worth that amount and have it reflected?

Does anybody here actually believe that these new dc books will hold these values beyond a few months? I doubt it. To me, a dealer who takes advantage of short term spikes to raise prices is suspect and that clouds any other dealings I may have with him.

Otoh for some reason I don't care if you want to move them over cover on eBay. Still don't have a good idea why that is though.

JasonNewcomb wrote: Now, here's a compromise I'd be happy with as a customer. If I see an uppriced copy of Animal Man #1 next to regular priced copies of the second printing, I don't get upset. I get to choose.

I agree. Once the 2nd printing is available, the 1st printing is a "back issue" and can be marked up.