John and Bob,
I was overwhelmed the other day when reading through the Comics Forums just how many comics podcasts there are. I listen to quite a few and yet it's only a fraction of what's out there. Made me realize that if the long tail rules apply, a great many of these shows aren't being heard by many people outside of their core groups of friends. And that's OK I'm sure to most. I know it would be for me.
Anyway, it inspired me to try to have a podcast-industry wide conversation about why we podcast, what motivates us, what our expectations are, etc...
Here is the forum thread:
http://www.thecomicforums.com/forum2//i ... pic=144296
I would love it if you participated either directly in the thread or in an ancillary conversation over here!
Thanks guys,
Jason
A discussion about comics podcasting
Moderator: JohnMayo
There are a ton of comic book podcasts out there. Well over a hundred last I looked. Whenever I mention this to a few of the people I know in the hardcore podcasters arena (people who podcast about podcasting types) they are stunned by how many comic book podcasts exist.
Why am I doing this?
I'm certainly not doing this for the money. We don't accept sponsorships and I'm paying for all of this out of pocket. That includes the hosting, the equipment, the cost for things like Skype-out, etc. (Bob, of course has paid for his side of things too.) I have spent more on the podcast over the course of this past year than I usually spend on a month's worth of comics. But that includes a few one-time expenses like the Zoom H2 I took to San Diego to record some stuff there.
The other expense is time. Recording, editing and releasing the podcast eats up a fair amount of my time which I could otherwise be spending reading comics or doing other things.
I have no delusions that I'm getting any sort of "fame" out of this. That having been said, I know that my name and what I've said has been discussed within all of the premiere publishers and a number of the companies in the back half of Previews. But that is probably more from the articles I've written at Comic Book Resources than from the podcast itself. Podcasting doesn't have the penetration into the overall comic book community that websites like CBR and Newsarama have. And, frankly, I've been talking with professionals in the comic book industry for years before podcasting was even created. So I don't really see podcasting as a way to break into the industry.
Part of why I do the podcast is because I like discussing comics. Note the use of the term "discussing" versus "talking about" since for me, the enjoyment comes from getting feedback and hearing other thoughts and opinions. so, for me, getting feedback in emails and on the forum is certainly a motivating factor. Bob and I are going to talk comics regardless of if we release those discussions as podcasts.
Part of what I think Bob and I offer that differs from many of the other podcasts out there is that we both read a ton of comics and have for decades. I've read the overwhelming majority (like say 95% to 99%) of the DC Universe titles over the past 25 to 30 years so I think I'm fairly well grounded on the DC Universe. With Marvel I go back to Secret Wars in 1984 and a bit lower percentage of the overall mainstream Marvel continuity. Bob has been reading comics long than I have and goes much, much farther back in his reader. As a result, when we talk about a comic, we do so with a larger context than many of the other podcasters out there than haven't been reading as long or as much.
And I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with those other podcasts. Just that sometimes they lack a context that Bob and I can provide. Each comic book podcast out there has a unique voice. I feel that part of what make the Comic Book Page podcast unique is that we speak from experience.
We try to cover things that other podcasts aren't covering and try to encourage our listeners to buy new things that they would enjoy. We are all about trying to help our listeners get the maximum enjoyment for their comic book dollar. We also try to actively promote other podcasts as much as possible with things like our monthly Previews Spotlight episodes.
I'll admit that as Bob and I have increased our output of episodes over the past few months that I am starting to get a little burnt out. This week along we released 4 hour and twenty minutes worth of content. the average seems to be between about 3 hours to 4 and a half hours a week for the released episodes. Unlike some podcasts, we do editing and post-production which means that the recording times are longer than the released episodes and there is the time commitment involved in editing the episodes.
Part of that sense of burn out is due to the modest level of feedback we get. When I spend an hour or two reading a trade paperback, organizing my recent back issue purchases into a condense checklist, two hours recording a Back Issue Spotlight episode and then another two hours editing it out the uhms, ahs and other dead space and only get a comment or two in response to the episode, I do start to question if that episode was worth the time investment or not.
While people no doubt enjoyed episodes like that, sometimes very few enjoyed it enough to comment on in any way, shape or form. That gets a little frustrating.
I guess I'm doing the podcast because comic books are a major part of my life. I mean, I'm not someone with a passing interest in comics and neither is Bob. I've got around 41,000 comics and Bob has even more than that. Discussing comics is in our nature. Doing it on a podcast and expanding the discussion group just made sense.
Why am I doing this?
I'm certainly not doing this for the money. We don't accept sponsorships and I'm paying for all of this out of pocket. That includes the hosting, the equipment, the cost for things like Skype-out, etc. (Bob, of course has paid for his side of things too.) I have spent more on the podcast over the course of this past year than I usually spend on a month's worth of comics. But that includes a few one-time expenses like the Zoom H2 I took to San Diego to record some stuff there.
The other expense is time. Recording, editing and releasing the podcast eats up a fair amount of my time which I could otherwise be spending reading comics or doing other things.
I have no delusions that I'm getting any sort of "fame" out of this. That having been said, I know that my name and what I've said has been discussed within all of the premiere publishers and a number of the companies in the back half of Previews. But that is probably more from the articles I've written at Comic Book Resources than from the podcast itself. Podcasting doesn't have the penetration into the overall comic book community that websites like CBR and Newsarama have. And, frankly, I've been talking with professionals in the comic book industry for years before podcasting was even created. So I don't really see podcasting as a way to break into the industry.
Part of why I do the podcast is because I like discussing comics. Note the use of the term "discussing" versus "talking about" since for me, the enjoyment comes from getting feedback and hearing other thoughts and opinions. so, for me, getting feedback in emails and on the forum is certainly a motivating factor. Bob and I are going to talk comics regardless of if we release those discussions as podcasts.
Part of what I think Bob and I offer that differs from many of the other podcasts out there is that we both read a ton of comics and have for decades. I've read the overwhelming majority (like say 95% to 99%) of the DC Universe titles over the past 25 to 30 years so I think I'm fairly well grounded on the DC Universe. With Marvel I go back to Secret Wars in 1984 and a bit lower percentage of the overall mainstream Marvel continuity. Bob has been reading comics long than I have and goes much, much farther back in his reader. As a result, when we talk about a comic, we do so with a larger context than many of the other podcasters out there than haven't been reading as long or as much.
And I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with those other podcasts. Just that sometimes they lack a context that Bob and I can provide. Each comic book podcast out there has a unique voice. I feel that part of what make the Comic Book Page podcast unique is that we speak from experience.
We try to cover things that other podcasts aren't covering and try to encourage our listeners to buy new things that they would enjoy. We are all about trying to help our listeners get the maximum enjoyment for their comic book dollar. We also try to actively promote other podcasts as much as possible with things like our monthly Previews Spotlight episodes.
I'll admit that as Bob and I have increased our output of episodes over the past few months that I am starting to get a little burnt out. This week along we released 4 hour and twenty minutes worth of content. the average seems to be between about 3 hours to 4 and a half hours a week for the released episodes. Unlike some podcasts, we do editing and post-production which means that the recording times are longer than the released episodes and there is the time commitment involved in editing the episodes.
Part of that sense of burn out is due to the modest level of feedback we get. When I spend an hour or two reading a trade paperback, organizing my recent back issue purchases into a condense checklist, two hours recording a Back Issue Spotlight episode and then another two hours editing it out the uhms, ahs and other dead space and only get a comment or two in response to the episode, I do start to question if that episode was worth the time investment or not.
While people no doubt enjoyed episodes like that, sometimes very few enjoyed it enough to comment on in any way, shape or form. That gets a little frustrating.
I guess I'm doing the podcast because comic books are a major part of my life. I mean, I'm not someone with a passing interest in comics and neither is Bob. I've got around 41,000 comics and Bob has even more than that. Discussing comics is in our nature. Doing it on a podcast and expanding the discussion group just made sense.
Awesome responses guys, and as you can imagine, I largely agree with you.
Hopefully I leave you guys feedback enough to let you know how much I appreciate what you're doing. Of all the podcasts I listen to, you gents are the closest to me in terms of my level of collecting, history with the medium and, of course, love of [sometimes expensive] older back issues!
Hopefully I leave you guys feedback enough to let you know how much I appreciate what you're doing. Of all the podcasts I listen to, you gents are the closest to me in terms of my level of collecting, history with the medium and, of course, love of [sometimes expensive] older back issues!
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BobBretall
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You're part of the core group that does give feedback & participate in the forum, so yes, you're goodWood wrote:Awesome responses guys, and as you can imagine, I largely agree with you.
Hopefully I leave you guys feedback enough to let you know how much I appreciate what you're doing. Of all the podcasts I listen to, you gents are the closest to me in terms of my level of collecting, history with the medium and, of course, love of [sometimes expensive] older back issues!
If download stats are any indication, though, there are a tremendous amount of people getting the show who don't comment.
Kudos to everybody who makes this aspect work. Time is the expense I could never afford when I've thought about trying to get more involved in podcasting. Hell, I'm pretty bad about even updating my blog.johnmayo wrote: The other expense is time. Recording, editing and releasing the podcast eats up a fair amount of my time which I could otherwise be spending reading comics or doing other things.
Between jobs and other commitments, the fact that most of the guys doing the podcasts I listen to manage to pull it all off amazes me.
I don't know what I would do without all these great comic book podcasts out there. I don't (and can't) listen to them all, but it really has re-energized my love for comics. It is the discussion aspect that I really enjoy from a comic book podcast.
As for John and Bob - I really do feel that they were filling out a niche that I didn't see, two super-fans of the medium who reads a lot of comics and love/like a lot of what they read. They also put out the best previews episode out there.
And Wood - although I haven't posted much at the 11 o'clock forum, your podcast is one of favorites as well. I love the discussion and love for the comic book that I hear week after week on your show.
Thanks for doing what you guys do.
As for John and Bob - I really do feel that they were filling out a niche that I didn't see, two super-fans of the medium who reads a lot of comics and love/like a lot of what they read. They also put out the best previews episode out there.
And Wood - although I haven't posted much at the 11 o'clock forum, your podcast is one of favorites as well. I love the discussion and love for the comic book that I hear week after week on your show.
Thanks for doing what you guys do.
I just wanted to say that this really is the best podcast out there for me. Wood's 11 O'Clock is one of the other podcast I like listening to. Thanks to CBP I've recently gone from being an occasional, mostly Marvel, comics reader in to getting 35 titles a month. I really appreciate how you guys obviously put some thought and preparation in to your show. It's also nice that John does some editing on the back end too. I've listened to a lot of other shows that are just too rambling for their own good.
The local comic shop wasn't providing a tenth of the guidance that you guys do. I don't want to get in to griping about my LCS. I also really like that I can pick "the Guys" comics brains on this forum.
I think you guys should be getting paid or at least getting some free or advance comics out this deal. Hey doesn't Roger Ebert get some perks out of what he does? Diamond should hook you guys up. Doing the interviews must be fun for you guys. The Previews Spotlight and Previews Interviews are may favorite episodes each month.
Anyone else out there who enjoys the show should support it by giving a nice many starred review on iTunes or by joining the group on Facebook as I've done. Or there's always Paypal.
John, please don't get burned out. Take a break or maybe slow down a little. How about Back Issues Spotlights every other week.
The local comic shop wasn't providing a tenth of the guidance that you guys do. I don't want to get in to griping about my LCS. I also really like that I can pick "the Guys" comics brains on this forum.
I think you guys should be getting paid or at least getting some free or advance comics out this deal. Hey doesn't Roger Ebert get some perks out of what he does? Diamond should hook you guys up. Doing the interviews must be fun for you guys. The Previews Spotlight and Previews Interviews are may favorite episodes each month.
Anyone else out there who enjoys the show should support it by giving a nice many starred review on iTunes or by joining the group on Facebook as I've done. Or there's always Paypal.
John, please don't get burned out. Take a break or maybe slow down a little. How about Back Issues Spotlights every other week.
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BobBretall
- Master Reviewer
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We're considering ramping back to 2 episodes a week (on the non Mayo-Report & non-Previews weeks) for at least a while. Hopefully that will help on the burnout.IanG wrote: John, please don't get burned out. Take a break or maybe slow down a little. How about Back Issues Spotlights every other week.
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Fnord Serious
- Fan
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- Location: Seattle, WA
Yeah, it can be good to step back for a while. I do the same thing with the two bands I play in. All that effort just to play shows in an empty dive bar somewhere gets kind of disheartening. But I take some time off and realize that I miss the very reason I'm in a band, the fun of making music with good friends. If my goal was to be a rock star, I'd be playing much different music, anyway.BobBretall wrote:We're considering ramping back to 2 episodes a week (on the non Mayo-Report & non-Previews weeks) for at least a while. Hopefully that will help on the burnout.IanG wrote: John, please don't get burned out. Take a break or maybe slow down a little. How about Back Issues Spotlights every other week.
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i_am_scifi
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- Contact:
I really like your podcasts
and am guilty of not properly showing my appreciation... However, I actually don't think it is any indication that your efforts are appreciated. I had a group of friends at work and I used to send out short funny tidbits via email about the work environment. Over time, the list of receipients grew but I never got a written response from anyone. People would tell me that they liked it in person and that was enough to keep me going. When I hit my 25th anniversary at work they had a little cake and soda thing for me.
One of the receipients of my email newsletter printed out every email I had sent out over the years, bound them together and presented it to me... This was a person who had never previously said a word about it. It was 2 huge binders... It must have taken her a long time to do this. She had saved every email I had ever sent. I will admit it meant alot to me.
If you look at your statistics you see that people are enjoying what you do. However, all hobbies have their place, if you do too much of your hobby it can stop being fun and start being work. I am amazed at how many podcasts you guys put out and the quality of the podcast. Don't let it burn you out!
Frank
One of the receipients of my email newsletter printed out every email I had sent out over the years, bound them together and presented it to me... This was a person who had never previously said a word about it. It was 2 huge binders... It must have taken her a long time to do this. She had saved every email I had ever sent. I will admit it meant alot to me.
If you look at your statistics you see that people are enjoying what you do. However, all hobbies have their place, if you do too much of your hobby it can stop being fun and start being work. I am amazed at how many podcasts you guys put out and the quality of the podcast. Don't let it burn you out!
Frank
Slight hijack...
I invested in a mac this past weekend and set up skype and audacity and can't wait to test it out to see if I get better quality recordings from this machine...
But as to why I podcast, it's because I feel like that whatever I do is hopefully putting out some good info to somebody somewhere because just like others have said earlier, I didn't realize there were so many shows....
Also we realized that we do have an audience...somebody is listening especially when our stats tell up that our main shows get downloaded about 50 to 80 times a month so hey....somebody likes what we do....LOL
I invested in a mac this past weekend and set up skype and audacity and can't wait to test it out to see if I get better quality recordings from this machine...
But as to why I podcast, it's because I feel like that whatever I do is hopefully putting out some good info to somebody somewhere because just like others have said earlier, I didn't realize there were so many shows....
Also we realized that we do have an audience...somebody is listening especially when our stats tell up that our main shows get downloaded about 50 to 80 times a month so hey....somebody likes what we do....LOL
I've got a question about podcasting that I'd really like to know what other people think of: To edit or not to edit?
For podcasters: do you edit your podcasts?
For listeners (and this included podcasters): do you care is the podcast it edited?
While I'm not going to claim to do anything resembling a top notch, brilliant job of editing, I do spend time editing out a lot of the dead space that can accumulate in an episode. The "ums," "ahs," "you knows," the audible breathing, the false starts, repeated words, the extraneous noise like keyclicks or chair creaks and things like that. Basically, anything that annoys me while I'm listening through the episode is stuff that I tend to removed. Sometimes it isn't much, sometime it is.
For example, the Weekly Comics Spotlight #65 that was released today was 42 minutes and 18 seconds long. The raw version was 51 minutes and 29 seconds long. I was able to tighten up the episode by 9 minutes or so. The result was an episode that was roughly 18% shorter than the raw recording (and included the intro, next week clip and ending) with no reduction in content other than the "white space" being removed.
While I could just take the raw file slap an intro and ending on to it and release it, I don't really feel comfortable doing so. I value the time of our listeners and don't want to waste it.
I want to hear what you all think about editing and podcasting...
For podcasters: do you edit your podcasts?
For listeners (and this included podcasters): do you care is the podcast it edited?
While I'm not going to claim to do anything resembling a top notch, brilliant job of editing, I do spend time editing out a lot of the dead space that can accumulate in an episode. The "ums," "ahs," "you knows," the audible breathing, the false starts, repeated words, the extraneous noise like keyclicks or chair creaks and things like that. Basically, anything that annoys me while I'm listening through the episode is stuff that I tend to removed. Sometimes it isn't much, sometime it is.
For example, the Weekly Comics Spotlight #65 that was released today was 42 minutes and 18 seconds long. The raw version was 51 minutes and 29 seconds long. I was able to tighten up the episode by 9 minutes or so. The result was an episode that was roughly 18% shorter than the raw recording (and included the intro, next week clip and ending) with no reduction in content other than the "white space" being removed.
While I could just take the raw file slap an intro and ending on to it and release it, I don't really feel comfortable doing so. I value the time of our listeners and don't want to waste it.
I want to hear what you all think about editing and podcasting...
As much more of a podcast listener than a podcast creator, I have to say "EDITED" in most cases. That said, it seems one of the biggest compliments we receive about 11 O'Clock comics is that we don't edit. Go figure.johnmayo wrote:I've got a question about podcasting that I'd really like to know what other people think of: To edit or not to edit?
For podcasters: do you edit your podcasts?
For listeners (and this included podcasters): do you care is the podcast it edited?
While I'm not going to claim to do anything resembling a top notch, brilliant job of editing, I do spend time editing out a lot of the dead space that can accumulate in an episode. The "ums," "ahs," "you knows," the audible breathing, the false starts, repeated words, the extraneous noise like keyclicks or chair creaks and things like that. Basically, anything that annoys me while I'm listening through the episode is stuff that I tend to removed. Sometimes it isn't much, sometime it is.
For example, the Weekly Comics Spotlight #65 that was released today was 42 minutes and 18 seconds long. The raw version was 51 minutes and 29 seconds long. I was able to tighten up the episode by 9 minutes or so. The result was an episode that was roughly 18% shorter than the raw recording (and included the intro, next week clip and ending) with no reduction in content other than the "white space" being removed.
While I could just take the raw file slap an intro and ending on to it and release it, I don't really feel comfortable doing so. I value the time of our listeners and don't want to waste it.
I want to hear what you all think about editing and podcasting...
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BobBretall
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- Posts: 5522
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:44 pm
I think it depends on the format. For a "shooting the (bleep)" conversation-cast that is spotlighting the personalities of the hosts, I think light/no editing is the right way to go.Wood wrote: As much more of a podcast listener than a podcast creator, I have to say "EDITED" in most cases. That said, it seems one of the biggest compliments we receive about 11 O'Clock comics is that we don't edit. Go figure.
I think an information/interview based show should have some editing. I really don't want to hear the hosts dialing up the person they are interviewing and getting a busy signal, for instance. I also don't need to hear weird background noise/distractions over the news/reviews.
That being said, there's a line between light editing & heavy production. Heavy production is nice for those shows that have that as an integral part of their format, but they take a lot more effort to produce.