Thoughts around reducing the monthly pull list

[HassanT]

Your point about having a half-way credible excuse for dropping a title is interesting. These days it takes a lot less for someone to drop a title than to add one or even keep on on their pull list.

I am not sure about that. A good example is with Ghost Rider. I ended up trying of Ghost Rider when Jason Aaron came on. I read the first arc and thought it was good but not my cup of tea, so I dropped it. Then a few months later, they have the Danny Ketch vs. Johnny Blaze, so I pick that issue from the LCS. I liked it but not enough to keep going. The point was that I picked up a title based on a character that I don't really love twice for small reasons.

There are some titles I will always get because I really dig them, even with a bad issue or two. And then there are titles that I probably pull-drop-pull-drop continuously. That is my weakness, Unless there is a creator on a book I really can't stand, I always tempted to try the book again in another 6 months.

[JohnMayo]

Your point about having a half-way credible excuse for dropping a title is interesting. These days it takes a lot less for someone to drop a title than to add one or even keep on on their pull list.

I am not sure about that. A good example is with Ghost Rider. I ended up trying of Ghost Rider when Jason Aaron came on. I read the first arc and thought it was good but not my cup of tea, so I dropped it. Then a few months later, they have the Danny Ketch vs. Johnny Blaze, so I pick that issue from the LCS. I liked it but not enough to keep going. The point was that I picked up a title based on a character that I don't really love twice for small reasons.

There are some titles I will always get because I really dig them, even with a bad issue or two. And then there are titles that I probably pull-drop-pull-drop continuously. That is my weakness, Unless there is a creator on a book I really can't stand, I always tempted to try the book again in another 6 months.

I'm not saying people would try things out. I'm saying that it seems to take a lot more for them to do so then for them to drop a title.

While you picked up Ghost Rider twice, you also dropped it twice. I'd bet that the odds are good that you probably picked up Ghost Rider both times at the start of a new story arc. If so, then it took specific jump on points using tactics like a new creator or bringing back a previous fan favorite character. (Danny Ketch supported a title for 90+ issues and revitalized the Ghost Rider and Marvel supernatural characters so I feel comfortable calling him a previous fan favorite character.)

Further, I'd be willing to bet that the odds are stronger that you dropped the title in the middle of a story arc than at the end of the arcs. As such, there are more jump off points than jump on points for the series.

The bottom line is that most titles are losing sales on almost each and every issue. To me, that implies that it is *much* more likely that a reader will drop a title than pick it up.

[HassanT]

Your point about having a half-way credible excuse for dropping a title is interesting. These days it takes a lot less for someone to drop a title than to add one or even keep on on their pull list.

I am not sure about that. A good example is with Ghost Rider. I ended up trying of Ghost Rider when Jason Aaron came on. I read the first arc and thought it was good but not my cup of tea, so I dropped it. Then a few months later, they have the Danny Ketch vs. Johnny Blaze, so I pick that issue from the LCS. I liked it but not enough to keep going. The point was that I picked up a title based on a character that I don't really love twice for small reasons.

There are some titles I will always get because I really dig them, even with a bad issue or two. And then there are titles that I probably pull-drop-pull-drop continuously. That is my weakness, Unless there is a creator on a book I really can't stand, I always tempted to try the book again in another 6 months.

I'm not saying people would try things out. I'm saying that it seems to take a lot more for them to do so then for them to drop a title.

While you picked up Ghost Rider twice, you also dropped it twice. I'd bet that the odds are good that you probably picked up Ghost Rider both times at the start of a new story arc. If so, then it took specific jump on points using tactics like a new creator or bringing back a previous fan favorite character. (Danny Ketch supported a title for 90+ issues and revitalized the Ghost Rider and Marvel supernatural characters so I feel comfortable calling him a previous fan favorite character.)

Further, I'd be willing to bet that the odds are stronger that you dropped the title in the middle of a story arc than at the end of the arcs. As such, there are more jump off points than jump on points for the series.

The bottom line is that most titles are losing sales on almost each and every issue. To me, that implies that it is *much* more likely that a reader will drop a title than pick it up.

I will give you that. It doesn't help the companies (and when I say companies, not just DC and Marvel) pump out a lot of titles. In some cases, they are competing with themselves.

[JohnMayo]

I am not sure about that. A good example is with Ghost Rider. I ended up trying of Ghost Rider when Jason Aaron came on. I read the first arc and thought it was good but not my cup of tea, so I dropped it. Then a few months later, they have the Danny Ketch vs. Johnny Blaze, so I pick that issue from the LCS. I liked it but not enough to keep going. The point was that I picked up a title based on a character that I don't really love twice for small reasons.

There are some titles I will always get because I really dig them, even with a bad issue or two. And then there are titles that I probably pull-drop-pull-drop continuously. That is my weakness, Unless there is a creator on a book I really can't stand, I always tempted to try the book again in another 6 months.

I'm not saying people would try things out. I'm saying that it seems to take a lot more for them to do so then for them to drop a title.

While you picked up Ghost Rider twice, you also dropped it twice. I'd bet that the odds are good that you probably picked up Ghost Rider both times at the start of a new story arc. If so, then it took specific jump on points using tactics like a new creator or bringing back a previous fan favorite character. (Danny Ketch supported a title for 90+ issues and revitalized the Ghost Rider and Marvel supernatural characters so I feel comfortable calling him a previous fan favorite character.)

Further, I'd be willing to bet that the odds are stronger that you dropped the title in the middle of a story arc than at the end of the arcs. As such, there are more jump off points than jump on points for the series.

The bottom line is that most titles are losing sales on almost each and every issue. To me, that implies that it is *much* more likely that a reader will drop a title than pick it up.

I will give you that. It doesn't help the companies (and when I say companies, not just DC and Marvel) pump out a lot of titles. In some cases, they are competing with themselves.

I completely agree that the high number of titles is a problem and is one of the many, many things causing low sales. That having been said, I see no reason to think that if the fewer titles were being published that those titles would sell better.

[BobBretall]

Going through the November Previews, here are my latest cuts.....

* Teen Titans (66 is last) - It was OK, but not great, and I'm just bailing on the entire Titans corner of the DCU.

* Ultimate Spider-Man (129 is last) - USM was the last Ultimate title I was getting. They decided to cross this over into Ultimatum (which I'm not getting) so a good place to jump off.

* Avengers the Initiative (20 is last) - Humberto Ramos is the new artist. B-bye!

* Ghost Rider (30 is last) - Another series that was good, but not GREAT, mostly due to the art.

* Punisher: Frank Castle (65 is last) - I'm stopping the MAX series.

* X-Force (10 is last) - Series is too dark (& I'm talking about the color pallette) for me.

Things I'm skipping altogether:
* Secret Invasion War of Kings - The "War of Kings" event includes "X-Men in Space" which I hate, PLUS the X-Men Kingbreaker mini (part of this event) is a 22 page comic for $3.99. I'm out, skipping the event.

* Velocity #1 - kind of a bait-and-switch on this after the Pilot Season issue that people voted on had Kevin Maguire as the artist

[Frank Castle]

I did not order Final Crisis #7. I'm quite upset about JG not doing the art. It was the only reason I was getting the book. I also dropped Mighty Avengers only to replace it with Dark Avengers.

[Wood]

Going through the November Previews, here are my latest cuts.....

* Teen Titans (66 is last) - It was OK, but not great, and I'm just bailing on the entire Titans corner of the DCU.

* Ultimate Spider-Man (129 is last) - USM was the last Ultimate title I was getting. They decided to cross this over into Ultimatum (which I'm not getting) so a good place to jump off.

* Avengers the Initiative (20 is last) - Humberto Ramos is the new artist. B-bye!

* Ghost Rider (30 is last) - Another series that was good, but not GREAT, mostly due to the art.

* Punisher: Frank Castle (65 is last) - I'm stopping the MAX series.

* X-Force (10 is last) - Series is too dark (& I'm talking about the color pallette) for me.

Things I'm skipping altogether:
* Secret Invasion War of Kings - The "War of Kings" event includes "X-Men in Space" which I hate, PLUS the X-Men Kingbreaker mini (part of this event) is a 22 page comic for $3.99. I'm out, skipping the event.

* Velocity #1 - kind of a bait-and-switch on this after the Pilot Season issue that people voted on had Kevin Maguire as the artist

I too dropped the Max series and Ultimate Spider-Man, although I did that a few months ago; just weren't doing it for me anymore. While I'm still reading Teen and Terror Titans, I punted TITANS because, well, do I really need to explain myself? I also dropped Runaways this month, Brave and the Bold, and have decided to stop ordering RASL because I would rather read it in a big collected edition 27 years from now when Jeff Smith completes the first arc.

[HassanT]

Recent changes to my pull list. In order to put a more positive spin on this thread, I will also include comics that I have added to my list:

Drop/ Watchlist
1) Avengers: The Initiative - #20 will be my last issue. I liked the book because of Dan Slott and not because of Christos Gage. I will continue to get Mighty Avengers, but I think Marvel is putting out way too many titles with the name Avengers in it. Unless #20 wows me, I won't be back for #21.

2) Ultimate Spider-man - This is on my watchlist. I have been reading the Ultimate line since was created. Back then, this was the more interesting universe. Now, it isn't. I love Amazing Spider-man and this book doesn't even compare. This isn't my Peter Parker.

3) X-Infernus - I pre-ordered the first issue, but I want to wait until I get that in my hands until I pre-order the others.

Adds
1) Secret Invasion: War of the Kings: Since this written by DnA, I will be getting it. It is an one-shot 48 page book, so I don't mind the 3.99.

2) Faces of Evil One-Shots - These look interesting to me and it features two of my favorite DC villains.

3) Batman and the Outsiders - With this one-shot, this back on my list. I love Peter Tomasi's work. I think he is slowly becoming a writer that I follow.

4) Supergirl - Back on my list permanently. I dropped the book over a year ago, but I loved Gates and Igle's first issue. With the fact that is now part of the Johns/ Robinson Superman family of titles, this is a no-brainier.

5) Vixen: Return of the Lion - I blame Bob and John for putting this book on my list

6) Black Lightning Year 1- A favorite character of mine and a good creative team.

7) Batman: The Brave and the Bold and Supergirl: Cosmic Adventures in the Eighth Grade- Trying these books out for my girls. If they like them, I will continue to get it for them.

When I went through my preliminary list, I still noticed that I have slightly more DC titles than Marvel titles on my list. I think even though I haven't been too pleased with a lot of creative decisions with DC lately, I am still a DC guy. I compared my current list to my original list that I had when I first joined DCBS. Back then, I had a 3 to 2 split in DC's favor. Now it is almost a 1 to 1 split, with DC having a slight edge.

[JohnMayo]

While I'm still reading Teen and Terror Titans, I punted TITANS because, well, do I really need to explain myself?

No, not at all. Hopefully they will switch creative teams and the title will become something that can rise up to the level of the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans.

[HassanT]

While I'm still reading Teen and Terror Titans, I punted TITANS because, well, do I really need to explain myself?

No, not at all. Hopefully they will switch creative teams and the title will become something that can rise up to the level of the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans.

I am holding out on hope!!

[BobBretall]

.... and have decided to stop ordering RASL because I would rather read it in a big collected edition 27 years from now when Jeff Smith completes the first arc.

HA! Good point. I think I'll pass on the next issue also. This book comes out far too infrequently to sustain itself as a periodical on my list. I'll get a collected edition somewhere down the line.....

[BobBretall]

Adds
1) Secret Invasion: War of the Kings: Since this written by DnA, I will be getting it. It is an one-shot 48 page book, so I don't mind the 3.99.
3) Batman and the Outsiders - With this one-shot, this back on my list. I love Peter Tomasi's work. I think he is slowly becoming a writer that I follow.

I would be getting BOTH of these one-shots if I thought they were remotely "done-in-one" complete stories.

Unfortunately, War of Kings is beings pitched as "only the beginning" of a story that will be crossing over into a bunch of X-Men titles I have no interest in getting sucked into.

The Batman & The Outsiders "one-shot" is the opening chapter that will lead directly into Outsiders #15. This begs the question, "Why not just tell the story in the pages of the main title?" I guess DC thinks they will get more sales by dragging the opening of the story out into a "one-shot" outside of the normal series, and they're probably right.

I agree that both of these look REALLY good, but I am in a mode where I am voting with my wallet to what I feel are squirrelly marketing tactics from both publishers (e.g. starting a storyline in an oversized "one-shot"). A one-shot, IMO, should be used to tell a complete story that someone can buy and not be left needing to then get a bunch of other books.

Some people say "I can't buy everything from (Marvel/DC)"....

I actually could if I wanted to, and I used to make a pretty fair shot at it, but I'm not going to any more. I am now in a mode of "I won't buy everything from (Marvel/DC)"

[Terry]

Wow people are dropping Titans like crazy. I don't read it but it must be awful.

I am also going to give Supergirl a go with the new direction. I like the character enough to give DC another chance.

[JohnMayo]

Wow people are dropping Titans like crazy. I don't read it but it must be awful.

I am also going to give Supergirl a go with the new direction. I like the character enough to give DC another chance.

It isn't the worst comic book series I've ever read but it is probably the worst ongoing (New) (Teen) Titans series I've read.

Judd Winick was the wrong write for this series. He fails to capture the nature of the characters or the team. The art is acceptable but just barely.

If this was a new team and not the Titans then people might be a bit more forgiving (although maybe not). The problem is that it falls so far short of the mark when compared to the Wolfman/Perez series. Of course that was also a huge hit for DC back in the 1980s so it is a high level to measure up against. Even so, I don't understand why DC went with this creative team.

Had this series been launched by Geoff Johns and a solid artist with a style compatible with George Perez then this could easily have become a top seller for DC.

This is just another way in which I think DC is burning off the goodwill of some readers.

All of that having been said, yes, I am still getting it. I got into comics partially based on these characters and the Titans are my favorite super-hero team. Sooner or later this series will turn around. Or get canceled.

I figure that every series and character/team has peaks and valley in the quality of the stories. This is a valley for the Titans, no question about that. But I'm willing to ride through that and get what enjoyment I can out of the stories. But that is just me... I certainly don't fault people for dropping the title and completely understand why they are doing so.

[Terry]

I know where you're coming from John. I give a lot more leeway to the creators on my favorite characters from childhood. Unless Ghost Rider sells his bike and gets a moped, or the Punisher starts taking Paxil and mellows out, I will buy every book they are in every month. Hell even then I would probably rationalize it and keep buying.