Weekly Comics Spotlight #55: 2008-08-27

[Fnord Serious]

Superman Beyond #1: I agree with some of your criticisms about Superman Beyond #1. The difference is that while I also found it a bit confusing on first read, I am looking forward to reading it again, finding a blog where someone has broken down all the references, reading it again, and then reading it again. Simulated Stereo wrote an interesting article about the issue which I persuaded him to post as a review over at comicbookdb.

John's comment of "Who are these people and why should I care" remind me of how I felt after reading Kingdom Come for the first time. The two books have a lot of similarities: stories that feel kind of flat on the surface level, bundles of unnamed and unexplained characters, and great art (IMO).

I would give it a 3 for initial readability, and I think the grade will go up with successive rereads.

New Avengers #44: I enjoyed this one a lot too. It is very hard to talk about this issue without spoiling what is going on, so I imagine some who haven't read the issue may be confused by why you guys liked it so much. The nitpicker in me was annoyed by the fact that the first scene of the Illuminati meeting up is captioned "Years Ago", yet Iron Man is wearing his current armor. But given what is revealed about the true nature of the meeting, I suppose there is plenty of wiggle room around that one.

A solid 4 for this one.

John: In the show notes for this episode, this issue is referred to as Mighty Avengers #44 rather than New Avengers #44

[JohnMayo]

John: In the show notes for this episode, this issue is referred to as Mighty Avengers #44 rather than New Avengers #44

Thanks for pointing that out. I've fixed it...

[BobBretall]

Superman Beyond #1: I agree with some of your criticisms about Superman Beyond #1. The difference is that while I also found it a bit confusing on first read, I am looking forward to reading it again, finding a blog where someone has broken down all the references, reading it again, and then reading it again.

I agree that given multiple reads/analysis will probably yield better results & comprehension of the story. My opinion is that a story that relies on this is a failure as a story. It should read as comprehensible on the 1st run-through, and further reads/analysis should only reveal extra depths of the story. They are an enhancement to the experience but should not be NECESSARY.

John's comment of "Who are these people and why should I care" remind me of how I felt after reading Kingdom Come for the first time. The two books have a lot of similarities: stories that feel kind of flat on the surface level, bundles of unnamed and unexplained characters, and great art (IMO).

I can see your point, but how familiar were you with DC when you read Kingdom Come? The point John & I were making here is that 2 guys who have read 1000s of DC comics over the past 30 years were having this reaction. I can understand a new reader being confused, but when you end up with confusion from folks who are long-time readers? Again, I can only call that a failure in the storytelling dept.

[Koete]

I loved Superman Beyond 3D. I love Final Crisis. I dropped Secret Invasion with issue 4. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[adampasz]

For me, Final Crisis has been far more interesting than Secret Invasion, which has gone into a holding pattern after its legitimately exciting first issue. FC is dense, complex, oblique, confusing and unlike like anything else that's being published right now. Will it be a success in the end? Who knows. But for me at least, it's been a compelling journey. Unlike most comics, it really takes me back to the feeling I had reading comics as a kid, poring over one or two issues for hours, struggling to make sense of the vastness of the comic book universes.

[comicm]

Let me just say I love Final Crisis and every single tie in to date with the exception of Superman Beyond 3-D. I did not hate it but man was this a hard read. It was very confusing and did not accomplish in my opinion what I thought it was going to accomplish. There were some redeeming qualities but not enough for me to love it. I will be picking up the second issue though. The other 3 final crisis books I read last week were all A's IMHO.

1) Final Crisis Rogues Revenge A
2) Last Will and Testament A (not sure if it was final crisis related but through it in here anyway.
3) Final Crisis Legion of 3 Worlds A

[JohnMayo]

Part of my disappointment with Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 3-D was the lack of originality. We've seen most of these Superman counterparts before. Or at least ones very similar to them. I mean, come on, Ultraman, the Nazi Superman, SHAZAM! and a Dr. Manhattan/Captain Atom knockoff? We saw more inventive counterparts for some of the heroes in Countdown: Arena...

It comes down to what you want out of a comic book. The reasons I'm not loving Final Crisis are the exact reasons some of you are. I have no problem with that at all. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I just found it wanting.


Regarding the plot stagnation in Secret Invasion, I can sort of understand that. I think there has been some plot movement but a lot of it has been in titles other than Secret Invasion. I guess I'm liking the big picture of Secret Invasion more than just the Secret Invasion limited series. The limited series has slowed down way too much since the first issue. Issues #2, #3 and #4 all seem to take place over the course of an hour or two total with no a whole lot happening.

[HipHopHead]

Regarding the plot stagnation in Secret Invasion, I can sort of understand that. I think there has been some plot movement but a lot of it has been in titles other than Secret Invasion. I guess I'm liking the big picture of Secret Invasion more than just the Secret Invasion limited series. The limited series has slowed down way too much since the first issue. Issues #2, #3 and #4 all seem to take place over the course of an hour or two total with no a whole lot happening.

I think Marvel is using the Grant Morrison concept of the "Bleed", as in "bleeding us dry" of our money. Secret Invasion should have been told in a four-part 40 page mini-series (same cover price).

Now we have the "Dark Reign" event. Another event? Though Bendis has been providing breadcrumbs for Secret Invasion for years, there were other "events" occuring during this timeframe. Every story told does not have to include ALL the characters.

[adampasz]

To be fair, I will admit that there are massive continuity problems with Final Crisis The Event, though not necessarily Final Crisis The Series. The initial hand-off from Countdown and Death of the New Gods was completely fumbled. And the Great Pause after issue 3 has been handled just as poorly, with characters popping up in other books even though they should be occupied elsewhere (e.g.: Superman in Last Will and LoTW). While I'm usually not a stickler about continuity, they are distracting here because they are so blatant. I don't think the other minis were originally intended to be part of FC, but they were sloppily shoehorned into the event in order to drum up sales.

John, as far as alternate Supermans go... I guess you could argue that it's an overused concept, but it's also a really cool concept. Clearly Morrison is using Superman Beyond 3D as a vehicle to deconstruct it, and to that end, the cliches are difficult to avoid. But there's some really great writing in this book! Morrison is effortlessly able to distill fundamental DC characters and concepts with lines like this one: "Ultraman, my counter-part from an antimatter copy of the Earth -- his pursuit of Corruption as tireless as my dedication to Justice." This sort of writing feels out of place in today's world of "realistic" comics. It strives to recapture the purity of the Gold and Silver Age.

And yeah, I didn't think the 3D was all that great, but I also didn't have any trouble reading the book without the glasses. And Mahnke's art was, some of the best I've seen him do.

[JohnMayo]

To be fair, I will admit that there are massive continuity problems with Final Crisis The Event, though not necessarily Final Crisis The Series. The initial hand-off from Countdown and Death of the New Gods was completely fumbled. And the Great Pause after issue 3 has been handled just as poorly, with characters popping up in other books even though they should be occupied elsewhere (e.g.: Superman in Last Will and LoTW). While I'm usually not a stickler about continuity, they are distracting here because they are so blatant. I don't think the other minis were originally intended to be part of FC, but they were sloppily shoehorned into the event in order to drum up sales.

My problem with Final Crisis is more that I'm not hooked by the story than anything else. The out of sync aspects with the other titles is sort of expected. But having the event seem so disconnected to all of the mainstream DCU just doesn't make any sense to me at all. You can't tell a universe changing Event storyline and have all of the ongoing titles in that universe oblivious to that Event.

John, as far as alternate Supermans go... I guess you could argue that it's an overused concept, but it's also a really cool concept. Clearly Morrison is using Superman Beyond 3D as a vehicle to deconstruct it, and to that end, the cliches are difficult to avoid. But there's some really great writing in this book! Morrison is effortlessly able to distill fundamental DC characters and concepts with lines like this one: "Ultraman, my counter-part from an antimatter copy of the Earth -- his pursuit of Corruption as tireless as my dedication to Justice." This sort of writing feels out of place in today's world of "realistic" comics. It strives to recapture the purity of the Gold and Silver Age.

I like the concept of alternate Supermans. I didn't like the unoriginal execution of it. We've seen these Superman counterparts before. Shouldn't a writer as clever as people are saying Grant Morrison is be able to come up with something more original than Ultraman, Overman, SHAZAM and a Dr Manhattan ripoff? This reads as a really bad issue of All Star Superman, not as an acceptable spinoff miniseries for the main Event at DC.

And yeah, I didn't think the 3D was all that great, but I also didn't have any trouble reading the book without the glasses. And Mahnke's art was, some of the best I've seen him do.

I'm not a big fan of Mahnke's art in general. I didn't feel the 3D added to or subtracted from his art. The 3D also didn't really add to the story at all. I mean, we've seen the Bleed tons of times before without needing 3D glasses.

And the spontaneous development of 4D super vision? Whatever...

[adampasz]

Hm. Is Overman a new character in FC or has he appeared before? I skipped Countdown Arena, but generally I prefer to see classic characters like Ultraman rather than a bunch of new throwaways that will never be seen or heard from again. FWIW, Morrison has been no slouch in terms of generating interesting new characters in the last few years...

[JohnMayo]

Hm. Is Overman a new character in FC or has he appeared before? I skipped Countdown Arena, but generally I prefer to see classic characters like Ultraman rather than a bunch of new throwaways that will never be seen or heard from again. FWIW, Morrison has been no slouch in terms of generating interesting new characters in the last few years...

Didn't Overman appear at the tail end of 52 when they set up Earth-10? This is really the first we've seen of this version of the character but a Nazi Superman isn't exactly all that original. Heck, tossing Captain Carrot into the mix would have been more interesting...

[adampasz]

Heck, tossing Captain Carrot into the mix would have been more interesting...

Ha! I'm surprised he's not in it. Maybe he'll be in Grant Morrison's "Superman R.I.P.".