I have often thought the same question that Bob had about how many people are reading comics. I know I have posted my musings before on this but I do think it is interesting to try to figure out how many people read comics.
I have no idea how to get people to try new books. I go by recommendations from podcasts and friends or by what I feel like when I flip through it at the shop. Sometimes the creators on a book will get me to try something but I have a pretty small list of must buy creators. That also assumes that I can find out/find a copy of the book. Some of the smaller stuff can be tough for me to track down. I am thinking of Action Labs in particular which I find tough to track down in Los Angeles.
I know plenty of you guys use previews as well. Didn't one of the small publishers recently move to the front of previews? I don't know much about previews but I thought you guys mentioned it. I would imagine they have run the numbers regarding whether they have had an uptick in sales by being in the front versus just alphabetical (assuming it is alphabetical).
I don't think overall critical praise/awards do much. The new Waid Daredevil has praise and awards but doesn't seem to be at the top of the charts as opposed to movies that get Oscars which usually see a big bump in sales.
Thanks for the podcast and the articles. I always enjoy combing through them and I will likely use that data to inform some of my comments for my year end review (with attribution of course).
Mayo Report
Moderator: JohnMayo
I wonder if John or anyone has any insight into a few things that come up regularly on the Mayo report episodes.
How does one get the sales number of any single title to then be able to figure out the rest? I know that mathematically once you have one number to match to a percentage you can figure out the rest based on the percentages, but how does one get a concrete number to start that process. Also wonder if the argument publishers give that these aren't the real numbers is simply related to bad information for that starting number. None of this really changes anything, more curiosity on how the percentages Diamond gives out are turned into concrete estimates of sales numbers by John or others like him that do this (are there others, or does the whole industry or at least the public look to John?).
On the Trade episode John mentioned the difficulty figuring out what book a list item was referring too (specifically with the 52 Omnibus). It was mentioned that an “N” add been added by Diamond and that caused some confusion. As a distributor I would assume (this is probably my mistake) that Diamond would assign all items carried a unique SKU (UPC, ISBN or some sort of unique identifier). Does the Diamond list that is made available every month not use this unique identifier? Does Diamond remove the unique identifier and change to titles to make the list easier to read for the average shop owner? Does the possibility of confusion come from this change from SKU to title? Is that change made manually (allowing typos to enter the equation) or is it automated from Diamond’s inventory system that runs off a unique SKU? Again this doesn’t really matter just curiosity.
How does one get the sales number of any single title to then be able to figure out the rest? I know that mathematically once you have one number to match to a percentage you can figure out the rest based on the percentages, but how does one get a concrete number to start that process. Also wonder if the argument publishers give that these aren't the real numbers is simply related to bad information for that starting number. None of this really changes anything, more curiosity on how the percentages Diamond gives out are turned into concrete estimates of sales numbers by John or others like him that do this (are there others, or does the whole industry or at least the public look to John?).
On the Trade episode John mentioned the difficulty figuring out what book a list item was referring too (specifically with the 52 Omnibus). It was mentioned that an “N” add been added by Diamond and that caused some confusion. As a distributor I would assume (this is probably my mistake) that Diamond would assign all items carried a unique SKU (UPC, ISBN or some sort of unique identifier). Does the Diamond list that is made available every month not use this unique identifier? Does Diamond remove the unique identifier and change to titles to make the list easier to read for the average shop owner? Does the possibility of confusion come from this change from SKU to title? Is that change made manually (allowing typos to enter the equation) or is it automated from Diamond’s inventory system that runs off a unique SKU? Again this doesn’t really matter just curiosity.
Not sure if John uses something else, or if this is even what you are asking about (my fault, not yours) but for sales estimates sold to dealers and not just the BATMAN based 100 mark, Comic Chronicles is nice.fudd71 wrote: How does one get the sales number of any single title to then be able to figure out the rest? I know that mathematically once you have one number to match to a percentage you can figure out the rest based on the percentages, but how does one get a concrete number to start that process.
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 12-11.html
Hope that helps or at least is partially what you are asking about.
http://www.comichron.com is done by John Jackson Miller who used to work for Comics Buyer's Guide. He is one of the few people I consider an expert on comic book sales.Perry wrote:Not sure if John uses something else, or if this is even what you are asking about (my fault, not yours) but for sales estimates sold to dealers and not just the BATMAN based 100 mark, Comic Chronicles is nice.fudd71 wrote: How does one get the sales number of any single title to then be able to figure out the rest? I know that mathematically once you have one number to match to a percentage you can figure out the rest based on the percentages, but how does one get a concrete number to start that process.
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 12-11.html
Hope that helps or at least is partially what you are asking about.
http://icv2.com/articles/news/1850.html is run by Milton Griepp who co-founded and led Capital City Distribution until it was bought out by Diamond. He is one of the other people I consider an expert on comic book sales. Among other things, Milton is the guy that devised the index ranking system for publishing sales information without reveal actual sales numbers. That system was later adopted by Diamond which used Batman as the benchmark title. I think Milton used Uncanny X-Men which was usually a top seller at the time.
In both cases, these guys have access to sales data from publishers which they use to unlock the Diamond lists to calculate the sales estimates they publish. Both are smart guys and both sites are worth checking out. They both tend to focus more on the "forest" of how the industry is doing while I tend to focus more on the "trees" or the individual titles. I often fear the industry is like a growing forest of dying trees. Sooner or later a generation of trees will fail to hit maturity and the entire forest will seem to die in what looks like a surprisingly short time frame.
The item in question was listed as "52 OMNIBUS HC (N52)" and it was the "(N52)" which usually denoted a New 52 title that confused me.fudd71 wrote:On the Trade episode John mentioned the difficulty figuring out what book a list item was referring too (specifically with the 52 Omnibus). It was mentioned that an “N” add been added by Diamond and that caused some confusion. As a distributor I would assume (this is probably my mistake) that Diamond would assign all items carried a unique SKU (UPC, ISBN or some sort of unique identifier). Does the Diamond list that is made available every month not use this unique identifier? Does Diamond remove the unique identifier and change to titles to make the list easier to read for the average shop owner? Does the possibility of confusion come from this change from SKU to title? Is that change made manually (allowing typos to enter the equation) or is it automated from Diamond’s inventory system that runs off a unique SKU? Again this doesn’t really matter just curiosity.
Diamond items have an ItemCode which consists of 9 characters. the first 3 denote the month of solicitation, the next to the year of solicitation and the other four are digits starting at 0001 going to around 5500 starting at the beginning of Previews moving towards the back. Numbers 8000 and up are for Previews Plus items which are late solicited. The sales data has the ItemCodes. Alas, any given item can have more than one ItemCode. This includes the various cover versions of a comic but even the same comic with the same cover can have multiple order codes.
In a rare cases, Diamond has revised the sales data and in at least one of those cases, the descriptions changes in a way that indicated to me that there was a manual clean up process that had been redone.
Just finished the trade segment which is great as always. With Vertigo, I can't help but wonder if DC just realized it wasn't worth their investment as much anymore. As noted on the podcast, Vertigo, like any publisher, had misses as well as hits. The problem is it seems like the hits are not generating big sales. They are critically well received but Saucer Country, Punk Rock Jesus, New Deadwardians just aren't big sellers. The biggest book they have is probably Fables and that is aroudn 15k in floppies. Subtract out the duds and I think it is just not as tempting.
Additionally, if those titles do hit fairly big, I believe the creators get more of the ancillary rights so who really needs that. Better to have a main DC title become a new hit where any spinoff TV show/movie will more go to benefit Warners.
I also think that in some ways Vertigo must not be as attractive an option as previously. It seems like the market has provided a more attractive option for some in the name of Image. I think when Saga went to Image that must have been a big blow. Vaughan had done a few non-super hero books with DC and he did not go back (Y, Pride of Bagdad, Ex Machina). To be fair, it could have been Staples that persuaded him not to go back. I doubt Vertigo would have passed because he was likely to be the surest thing for them given his past record but maybe they did pass. While not at Vertigo, Brubaker and Phillips also went to Image for Fatale.
To be clear, I think Vertigo will continue as Fables alone is enough to keep the lights on (at least for now). I would also like Vertigo to continue to put out different types of books but I just think that maybe the accountants at DC might have figured that the numbers don't make sense to devote too many resources to it. Alternatively, maybe it can evolve into a place where newer people take a shot? They could offer the name and support staff that maybe people like Vaughan don't need as much. However I would think those books would not be big sellers.
Thanks as always gents. Keep up the good work.
Additionally, if those titles do hit fairly big, I believe the creators get more of the ancillary rights so who really needs that. Better to have a main DC title become a new hit where any spinoff TV show/movie will more go to benefit Warners.
I also think that in some ways Vertigo must not be as attractive an option as previously. It seems like the market has provided a more attractive option for some in the name of Image. I think when Saga went to Image that must have been a big blow. Vaughan had done a few non-super hero books with DC and he did not go back (Y, Pride of Bagdad, Ex Machina). To be fair, it could have been Staples that persuaded him not to go back. I doubt Vertigo would have passed because he was likely to be the surest thing for them given his past record but maybe they did pass. While not at Vertigo, Brubaker and Phillips also went to Image for Fatale.
To be clear, I think Vertigo will continue as Fables alone is enough to keep the lights on (at least for now). I would also like Vertigo to continue to put out different types of books but I just think that maybe the accountants at DC might have figured that the numbers don't make sense to devote too many resources to it. Alternatively, maybe it can evolve into a place where newer people take a shot? They could offer the name and support staff that maybe people like Vaughan don't need as much. However I would think those books would not be big sellers.
Thanks as always gents. Keep up the good work.
LA Rabbit
-
the1captain
- Reviewer
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:57 pm
Shelly Bond has been promoted to executive editor at Vertigo. Does this mean Vertigo will continue into the foreseeable future? Well, they have bothered to fill the vacancy left by Karen Berger so it would seem they plan to continue for at least a little while.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=42740
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=42740
As y'all should know by now, I love wild speculation, so understanding that, which do you think is more likely...
1. There are a little about 150,000 mainstream comic fans
or
2. Neither Marvel nor DC has figured out how to have the must read book that everyone needs to be reading.
I say this because the top sellers (discounting the number one issues which we have reason to doubt all end up in reader's hands) are a little over 100K.
I have to think it is number 2. Batman and AvX is probably the closest thing with sales around 150K but it is a pretty big drop off to the next title (Justice League, give or take).
Other than another giant event book, what could Marvel or DC do to boost a single title. Batman is a popular character which certainly helps. The creative team is top notch but nothing in their past would suggest that sort of sales bump. I have no idea personally, I dropped off of both AvX and Batman. Batman Court of Owls went too long and ways I didn't like (same with AvX) and both had plenty of cross-overs. All things I generally don't like so not sure if those helped, hurt or had no impact.
Any ideas on suggestions? We have seen a few trends come and go. Maybe once MarvelNOW falls out we will see what else works?
1. There are a little about 150,000 mainstream comic fans
or
2. Neither Marvel nor DC has figured out how to have the must read book that everyone needs to be reading.
I say this because the top sellers (discounting the number one issues which we have reason to doubt all end up in reader's hands) are a little over 100K.
I have to think it is number 2. Batman and AvX is probably the closest thing with sales around 150K but it is a pretty big drop off to the next title (Justice League, give or take).
Other than another giant event book, what could Marvel or DC do to boost a single title. Batman is a popular character which certainly helps. The creative team is top notch but nothing in their past would suggest that sort of sales bump. I have no idea personally, I dropped off of both AvX and Batman. Batman Court of Owls went too long and ways I didn't like (same with AvX) and both had plenty of cross-overs. All things I generally don't like so not sure if those helped, hurt or had no impact.
Any ideas on suggestions? We have seen a few trends come and go. Maybe once MarvelNOW falls out we will see what else works?
LA Rabbit
I'm not sure any of the relaunches or reboots that are being done by Marvel and DC do anything but give a temporary boost to sales for a given month or two.
Until the industry as a whole figures out how to grow it's business and attract NEW customers the sales numbers will remain flat. I'm not sure how to accomplish this goal. I think it would be interesting to hear how young people who are new to comics became interested or were introduced to the medium in the first place.
The world has changed so much since I was a kid. In the 70's (when I started reading comics) there weren't all the entertainment choices there are now for young people so comics have a hard nut to crack to garner the attention of the young consumer. There's a ton of competition for their buck.
Until the industry as a whole figures out how to grow it's business and attract NEW customers the sales numbers will remain flat. I'm not sure how to accomplish this goal. I think it would be interesting to hear how young people who are new to comics became interested or were introduced to the medium in the first place.
The world has changed so much since I was a kid. In the 70's (when I started reading comics) there weren't all the entertainment choices there are now for young people so comics have a hard nut to crack to garner the attention of the young consumer. There's a ton of competition for their buck.
I am with you. If I was a kid today, I don't think I would be reading comics. Everyone I know with kids (even young kids) just gives them their phone to play with if they are bored. They seem to be equally adept at using electronics as books. They are probably more adept than I am. Also I don't really know how much money kids get for spending on things but I would think that the price point is pretty high unless the kid is hitting the discount bins.Gilgabob wrote: The world has changed so much since I was a kid. In the 70's (when I started reading comics) there weren't all the entertainment choices there are now for young people so comics have a hard nut to crack to garner the attention of the young consumer. There's a ton of competition for their buck.
LA Rabbit
I think this is more the problem. Comic prices have outpaced inflation, while wages have stagnated and even declined over the last 30+ years. I have a friend with a couple of young boys and I pass off some comics I think his kids will like to him and he says they tear into them and read them (or look at the pictures) until the thing falls apart. The interest is there, but it's really hard to justify $3 or $4 a comic.LA Rabbit wrote:I am with you. If I was a kid today, I don't think I would be reading comics. Also I don't really know how much money kids get for spending on things but I would think that the price point is pretty high unless the kid is hitting the discount bins.Gilgabob wrote: The world has changed so much since I was a kid. In the 70's (when I started reading comics) there weren't all the entertainment choices there are now for young people so comics have a hard nut to crack to garner the attention of the young consumer. There's a ton of competition for their buck.